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WAR and PEACE Here are what some of the Golden Jubileer's thought about the topic of war. Entries in reverse chronological order, most recent on top: |
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August 15, 2008 2:53:34 PM PDT Robert Yan wrote: Hello Folks, Good morning. In the last few days I read with much interest on Ah Mak & Moses' comments and insights. Wars & human conflicts have never ceased in this world since time began. First among tribes, then between cities & states. Now it is global. And with this we have 'geopolitics', 'genocides', 'ethnic cleansing'. Civilisation is more or less an endless cycle of war and peace perpetrated by all kinds of human ingenuity in science and weaponry. We have had conquerors & the vanquished. Great leaders & the tremendous suffering & bloodshed of the general populace in every corner of this world. Today's geopolitics means instant but brief alliances against each other. In the second world war, it's the Allied nations against the Fascists. After that it's the Free World against the Iron Curtain. We saw China changed from being a member of the Allied during the war to that of the Iron Curtain after 1949. All of sudden now Japan became an ally of the western nations of the Atlantic Alliances. In 1989, the Soviets collapsed and many of her satellite states became independent & fall in line with the Nato Alliance. Now as if the Middle East conflicts aren't enough, the Caucasus flares up. Through it all, it's the people, innocent people who bears the suffering & devastation & death. Then there are the refugees. I was born during the war, as was many of you my dear friends. My earliest memories from childhood always revolved around fleeing & running. The intense smell of a bomb explosion only yards away from our shelter and the choking dusts, the groans of panic & the tight grip of my father's arms around us...forever edged in my mind. I'm sure many of you must have similar memories. ( Joe Shek, speak up please) Growing up in HongKong during boyhood in peace still hasn't shielded us from war. The civil war only miles away inside China raged on for years. News of suffering & devastation reached HK daily by the minute. (no TV yet then but there's the radio) And refugees flocked into the New Territory across the border...HK turned most of them back but many succeeded. At school we sat with boys who couldn't speak a word of Cantonese ( Joe Ku ? Ed Tang ?) at first but very quickly adapted. I've had teachers who spoke only mandarin or other dialect trying their very best to teach us. Every so often news papers publish extras. One such occasion was when Nanjing fell into communist armies after the latter successfully crossed the Yangtse. I remember running in the street being pushed forward by a crowd eager to read the extra. Suddenly I tripped & fell, right on top of an extra spread on the ground. It read in large characters; " ???? ???? " ( Bak Marn Hung Si, Yeh Doe Cheung Gong ) I remember this very vividly. It was 1948, the beginning of the end of an era. Where were you my friends when this happened ? [Hey, may be we should start a new forum on ' Where are you when the atomic bomb was dropp on Nagasaki ' ] Where are you when Kennedy was assassinated ? and so forth. Robert |
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August 14, 2008 8:28:03 PM PDT Oswald Fung wrote: Hello, folks, I am inspired by the insightful and passionate comment of Reginald and the enthusiastic response of Moses. The world has indeed changed since 9/11. But the civilized world (meaning the U.S.) responded to this hideous terror with more terror (shock and awe). It's no surprise that the vengeful reaction has created more terrorists. Violence of any kind should be deplored if targeted on civilians. Collateral damage is not acceptable. It's just another excuse for disregarding human suffering. Needless to say that what happened in Iraq is a disaster and a tragedy for the Iraqi people. I just hope that the next American administration will be more rational and less ideological, more consultative and less partitioning, more conciliatory and less confrontational. I hope it will not continue to see the world in just black and white, and will discard the obsessive worship of military power. I hope it will create a just and fair society, provide medical care for those who can't afford insurance (better still, install universal health care), and invest more in combating global warming, and production of renewable energy. I think there will be hope for the future of the Americans if the voters can overcome the fear of being labelled as "liberal", "appeasing the enemy", "showing the sign of weakness", and "unpatriotic", and vote for a sensible government in November. Oswald |
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August 14, 2008 11:36:05 AM PDT Moses Wong wrote: I must applaud you, Ah Mak, on your wise thoughts and outstanding analysis of the current political system and administrative directions of the US government. The situations are fairly similar here in Canada but not as drastic as such. Your comments about fighting should only be needed to protect ones country and ones family are absolutely correct and should be upheld if leaders are reasonable individuals. You are in a highly-motivated groove when it comes to expressing your political point of view. I, on the other hand, have little knowledge about politics. I don't even understand the definition of right-wing, left-wing, versus the center; never mind the policies of the Conservatives versus the Liberal Parties. I do vote though. But I vote for the leader and not the party. As a matter of fact I vote for the leader who has the best personality and attitude and with good "eye connection(can't find another word for it, in Chinese its called: Ngan Yuen)" to me. Parties have phony agenda and not worth my while to adhere to like many loyal followers. I'll now leave you with some thoughts on DEMOCRACY which is a topic I am eager to discuss next. You may want to start first. Any other dear classmates who want to chip in, you are very much welcome. Moses |
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August 13, 2008 2:31:44 PM PDT Reginald Mak wrote: Hello, everybody. I see the latest Russian invasion of Georgia as an important new development of the dangerous world we live in and one illustration of the policy failures of the current U.S. administration. The following article is interesting and might engage us in thinking more about the new world we are gradually moving into. On a separate topic. This morning when I was reading an editorial of the Wall Street Journal, one of my regular daily newspapers, I could not have been more amazed at the scary mindset of the neo-conservatives. Everyone knows that the Wall Street Journal is an ultra-conservative newspaper (Disclosure: I am neither a conservative nor a liberal), but the short printed message fully conveys their belief that their end justifies any means. The reasoning is stupidity to the nth degree. Even frightening. The message is that Iraq is now running a budget surplus, and that means things are going well in Iraq, and that means U.S. policy is succeeding as far as the war is concerned. The oil revenues in Iraq will be "paying for a better life for Iraqi citizens", it says. Never mind that the U.S. citizens have been footing the bill for the war and for the rebuilding efforts so there is currently an Iraqi budget surplus. A better life for Iraqi citizens? Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who were killed because of the U.S. invasion. Tell that to the millions of Iraqis who have been injured or maimed and have lost loved ones over the past several years. Tell that to the Iraqi citizens who have been displaced from their homes and living without electricity or running water since the war started and are still living under the fear of violence and suicide bombers. For millions, there can be no better life until their next life. What a farce! Forget about politics. Forget about ideology. Wars are horrible, and should only be fought in defense of one's country and for the protection of one's families. In this context, we gain some understanding from the following article how our leaders can act callously and frivolously against our interest by treating wars like war games. Selecting (voting) leaders is a serious business, for they can squander our tax dollars and the lives of our young by waging or causing ill-conceived wars, follow by covering their mistakes. Mistakes can be tolerated. But not evil. Reginald. ****************************************** The Russo-Georgian War and the Balance of Power August 12, 2008 <http://www.stratfor.com> By George Friedman TO GET PDF COPY, (CLICK HERE!) ****************************************** |
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August 11, 2008 3:22:31 PM PDT Moss Wong wrote: Hi Ah Joe, You've made a good point about the consequences of wars. But it doesn't give the leaders the moral rights to invade other countries knowing that there would be bloodshed and killings of innocent people. Incidentally, where do we find sane leaders? But my original comments were on the post-war remembrance to honor the victims. True enough Japan suffered a great loss of many people in an instant. But if people were to perish over a long period of time, no body would mourn them because its the consequence of the war (that's the Japanese argument about their killings in China - they were waging a war against China). What a ridiculous argument!! Remember the Rape of Nanking? Anyway, my point is that in order to fairly honor the victims, one must honor the victims on both sides. For them to chant "no more atomic bombs!", the Japanese should also include in their remembrance their regrets on waging wars against other countries and promise not to do that again (I say if they do, they will get the bombs again!!). The reason for not showing their remorse is that they are still blaming whoever dropped the atomic bombs on them. When are they going to wake up and say sorry? Moses |
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Monday, August 11, 2008, 12:47 PM Joseph Ku wrote: Hello All, It is important to remember that wars are started by the leaders, not the people. In the old days, the leaders paid for the soldiers and personally led them into war. In some rare circumstances, conscription amassed the soldiers, against their will. Not until the twentieth century, due to the changes in weaponry, did the innocent general population significantly became part of the war. The Chinese refugees from shelling and bombing, the Germans from Allied carpet bombing and the Japanese from the atomic bombs are all innocent victims. So are the people that died on 9/11. What we need are sane leaders. Joseph Ku |
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August 11, 2008 11:32:27 AM PDT Moses Wong wrote: Hello All, Thank you Ed for your help. In fact I was able to read your re-transmission clearly without going into the viewing process. It was also timely that I was able to read Oswald's article. And in response to this amusing piece of "dissertation" on Japanese culture, I'd like to add my long-suppressed opinion on the same topic. Before we go to that, I'd like to share with you some thoughts on the Beijing Olympics. I don't want to let the excitement of the Olympics dull my senses. Amidst the brouhaha of the propaganda if one is to take in the luscious show-offs of the games; one must also realize that behind all this glory, many lives have been mistreated and livelihood compromised. Many old inhabitants have been forced to relocate with little or no compensations in order to make way for the constructions. We can also imagine that artificial rules and orders from higher-ups were imposed on the people and businesses against their wills. People had to be obedient for the show to go forward. Again, I am trying to seek a balance of viewpoint from what is hailed as the greatest show on earth. Coincidentally, during these past few days we have been bombarded with newscasts of the anniversary of the atomic bombing of Japan. Every year around this time there are ceremonies of remembrance of the event. If one pays attention to the content one always notices that Japan is portrayed as the victim of the war (the Bombs). I get very mad every time I see the news. Why is that nobody questions the root cause of the war? Why is that nobody points out who the REAL victims are, and why did Japan get to receive the Bombs? A very simple test question is that: IF THE ATOMIC BOMBS WERE NOT USED, WOULD JAPAN STOP THE KILLINGS AND SURRENDER TO THE ALLIES? How long would China and the surrounding countries be continued to be abused and molested by Japan? I think the answer is quite obvious. I wish the news media has the senses of striking a balance of the true meaning of remembrance; not just to highlight the dramatic consequence of an unjust global disaster and ignore the many times of sufferings and deaths of other countries as a consequence of the aggression and atrocity of Japan. There are still no regrets shown by the aggressor. Pity!!! Moses |
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On August 10, 2008, Edward Yim forwarded this article, in Chinese, on Japanese customs which started this discussion track on Wars. To get a pdf copy of article, (CLICK!) |
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